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Published Sep 23, 21
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I desire to give you all a break for a moment and turn to Mr. Swartz. Generally, we would certainly have had two panels, however we didn't recognize just how the Senate would be operating today, so in an initiative to make sure we got through all the treaties today, we did this as one panel.

Swartz, you mention in your testimony and also your statements that the treaty with Bermuda also pierces financial institution secrecy and also supplies a device for us getting the information we need. There have been some mutual lawful support treaties which contain stipulations associated straight to sharing financial institution documents or various other economic details.

That was a provision that was drafted and also adopted in the context of the E.U.

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Under that provision, it's possible for the requesting party asking for seek information look for details whether an account exists in the requested country, or in the case of situation E.U., one of the requested member states. Afterwards, the request, if there is an identification of an account, have to be complied with up through a basic mutual legal support treaty.

And with respect to Bermuda, our document of participation has been extremely excellent. Our company believe that the document we carry the production of records, consisting of financial institution documents, is such that we are positive that the stipulations consisted of in this shared lawful support treaty, which do need collaboration on the production of records, will certainly be enough to ensure that we get the records we require for our monetary investigations and other investigations.

Some various other MLATs likewise permit for urgent, non-written kind requests to be made. Mr. Chairman, while it is true that the Mutual Lawful Assistance Treaty does require demands in written kind, it was the judgment of the mediators that it was sufficient that, in this instance, with regard to Bermuda, we would certainly be able to obtain quick responses to our requests as well as also offer such responses to Bermuda's requests, particularly due to the fact that we have a technique currently developed that will certainly proceed, we think, under the treaty of being able to communicate those requests with e-mail or through fax.

Senator Cardin. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson.

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Bermuda withstood that since they intended to make sure that the demands were clear as well as in a more formal method. In the arrangements, it likewise ended up being clear that they accepted that such request can be made by fax or by e-mail. The genuine issue they were concerned concerning was not finding a fast means to make a request, however truly just taking dental requests off the table.

We're positive that we've got the ways in area that we can make immediate requests of them in a way that will certainly be effective. Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, if I might add, actually, while it is an advantage to be able to make dental demands, in method, it's really rare that we do so.

Senator Cardin. My primary problem is simply, in immediate matters, that it's not delayed. As well as with contemporary interaction, it seems to me that can probably be managed. I'm much more worried concerning bank documents. Mr. Johnson, do have any comments on the bank records concern? Mr. Johnson. Once more, not specifically on the bank issue.

The distinction between being able to do an oral demand or being able to make use of one of these various other very fast means, we assume, is not consequential. Legislator Cardin. There have actually been some problems raised about the adequacy of Bermuda regulation with regard to forfeits of earnings as well as instrumentalities of criminal offenses.

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Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we are. Certainly, the growth of forfeiture legislation is an essential as well as dynamic issue. We've seen a variety of adjustments throughout the years, including here in the United States. However the Mutual Legal Help Treaty in Write-up 17 does obligate Bermuda to supply assistance to the United States in procedures associating to forfeit of earnings and agencies of criminal activity, to the extent allowed by the legislation of Bermuda.

We've had 2 instances of successful ask for restraint and forfeiture of assets. Both instances were a success as well as we had the ability to get the funds. As a basic matter, help is available under the regulations of Bermuda, and I do think that's crucial to stress and anxiety, when it come to freezing, confiscating, and also restraining properties, including for issues connecting to terrorism and also terrorism financing.

Yet it should be noted that forfeit support is not limited to what is allowed under Bermuda's domestic regulation. With regard to an U.S. order, Bermuda can not surrender a certain instrumentality of nondrug offenses, since that power doesn't exist locally. Again, that's restricted to agencies in nondrug crime cases.

Senator Cardin. Thank you. Allow me just ask the basic inquiry, and also any type of one of you can reply to it. In the Bermuda agreement, there's an arrangement that is not unfamiliar to us, where Bermuda can reject collaboration in funding situations. We recognize, I comprehend that, so I'm not being crucial of that arrangement being included in there.

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Are we impeded as a result of that or is there a way in which we are able to coordinate under this treaty, even in those cases? Mr. Swartz. Mr. Chairman, we think and we hope we still would be able to work together. Bermuda suggested, and has actually encouraged the United States, that it books the right to reject help in capital instances where the sentence consists of a feasible capital punishment, counting on the-- in contrast to the essential public law stipulation of Article 3 of the convention.

We have that experience with various other nations that have actually placed similar analyses on the shared legal help obligations, and also we have actually been able to work out plans in a number of cases that enable us to acquire proof or review whether the proof is considerable enough to go ahead with some kind of more actions being taken.

Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson. Yes, Legislator, if I might simply contribute to that, one of the factors this treaty took as lengthy it did to discuss as well as conclude is due to the fact that it was necessary to us to ensure that there wasn't a specific limitation on assistance in resources situations in the treaty itself.

Swartz pertaining to you. Which way we believe that helps maintain the principle that is very important to us, that such teamwork ought to be offered, irrespective of the sort of instance. And we think this has actually additionally substantiated with a few other countries, where despite comparable problems about cooperation in resources instances, they have, for instance, been able to offer support to the nonpenalty phase of a trial or an additional party investigation.

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They do hold the right under this treaty to refute cooperation where the United States criminal justice system is looking for resources punishment? Senator, they hold the right under the treaty to not provide aid in instances that are in contrast to public plan or their crucial rate of interests, and also they have actually informed us that they interpret that to enable them, in fatality fine situations, to work out that.

Legislator Cardin. I understand that. I just intended to make it clear that they would certainly not be an infraction of the treaty. We understand their analysis, that if there was an instance pending below that we required their help, where, plainly, the district attorneys were seeking the execution, Bermuda could decide not to coordinate under this treaty (foreign tax credit).

Swartz. If I could say, Mr. Chairman, notably, the treaty would call for, given that this would be a rejection under Write-up 3 of the treaty, that first there needed to be appointments with the United States, prior to that denial might move forward. As well as I believe that's an essential element of the arrangement that Mr.

Rather than having a specific stipulation, this is just one of a set of problems under which help may be denied after examination, as well as, among various other points, that there need to be consideration regarding whether help can be provided, subject to such conditions as the asked for nation considers necessary. As well as our experience because respect has actually been that we usually can discover suitable assurances to permit evidence to be generated, at the very least for initial assessment of the value of proof in the event overall.

And also I assume that would be practical for us to have that information in this board. Mr. Swartz. Thanks. foreign tax credit. We would certainly be delighted to provide that. Senator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the easiest job right here, given that this agreement was formerly authorized by this committee. As I claimed in my opening, we approved it too late in the 111th Congress for activity.

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Have there been any considerable adjustments in our investment relationship with Rwanda because last November when you gave statement on this treaty? What we have seen given that last November is a boost in United States investment in Rwanda, and also I can offer you a few examples.

Likewise, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open a major hotel in Kigali. And also, likewise, Marriott Hotels is entering to help with the nation's growing hospitality sector. So I would claim that, provided this pattern of boosted investment, that it is necessary that the defenses be managed for them.

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You also stated the fact that the United States is exploring other bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. I think we have five existing bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you just share with us other nations that the United States has shown rate of interest in working out treaties?



I believe that completes the questioning. I do value your persistence with the committee and also thank you very much for your testimony today.

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Answer. As laid out listed below, we wish to provide updated details on reported UNITED STATE financial investment task in Rwanda. Various other than these updates, the responses given by the Division's witness in the 111th Congress continue to be exact. In 2009, the stock of U.S. foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis).

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And also I assume that would certainly be valuable for us to have that info in this committee. Mr. Swartz. Thank you. We 'd rejoice to provide that. Legislator Cardin. Ms. Mc, Carthy, you have the most convenient task below, considering that this contract was formerly approved by this committee. As I said in my opening, we authorized it also late in the 111th Congress for action.

Have there been any kind of considerable changes in our financial investment partnership with Rwanda given that last November when you provided testimony on this treaty? What we have seen given that last November is a rise in United States investment in Rwanda, as well as I can offer you a couple of examples.

Additionally, in February of this year, we have Hilton Hotels; it's is going to open up a major resort in Kigali. And, additionally, Marriott Hotels is entering to facilitate the country's growing friendliness market. So I would claim that, offered this pattern of enhanced investment, that it is vital that the protections be managed for them.

You additionally pointed out the fact that the United States is discovering various other reciprocal financial investment treaties in Africa. I assume we have 5 present bilateral financial investment treaties in Africa. Can you simply share with us other countries that the United States has revealed passion in bargaining treaties?

I think that completes the questioning. We could have some additional questions for the document. As you know, the record stays open for 24 hr, so you get a break. That's a rather fast turn-around time for this committee. I do appreciate your perseverance with the committee as well as thank you extremely a lot for your testament today.

Solution. As established out below, we would like to supply upgraded information on reported U.S. financial investment task in Rwanda. Apart from these updates, the answers supplied by the Department's witness in the 111th Congress remain accurate. In 2009, the supply of U.S. foreign straight investment in Rwanda was $1 million (according to the Bureau of Economic Evaluation).

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